[00:00:00] Voiceover: Welcome to The Wave Strength: Innovative solutions for a Secure Retirement. Presented by Pacific Life.

[00:00:16] Jim Breen: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of The Wave Strength podcast series. I'm your host, Jim Breen, Head of Marketing with Pacific Life's Institutional Business Team. With us today in the studio is Brian Woolfolk, the Executive Vice President and Head of the Institutional Business Team.

[00:00:32] Jim Breen: Brian, thank you so much for being with us and joining us.

[00:00:34] Brian Woolfolk: Thanks for having me, Jim. I appreciate being back on the pod.

[00:00:37] Jim Breen: Absolutely. And you are no stranger to the podcast. We appreciate the times you've been on the show before, and I want to encourage our audience too, just as a quick segue. If you'd like to catch up on some of those episodes, head over to YouTube, Spotify, and type in The Wave Strength and you can listen to some of those past episodes where Brian's been a guest. But, a lot to unpack here in today's episode, Brian, real high level for, those joining us.

[00:01:07] Jim Breen: I really want to touch base on this four year journey that the Institutional Business Team has achieved this milestone of four years in; the successes, the achievements, the learnings. And that's what I'd like to talk about today.

[00:01:22] Brian Woolfolk: Sure. And you say it. Here we are in early 2024. That's amazing to me. The fact that we're four years in to our journey here as an Institutional Business. I'm looking forward to today.

[00:01:35] Jim Breen: Awesome. Great. Let's jump right into it, Brian. Maybe you can just share, for those who have not heard our previous episodes with you, Brian; let's go back four years ago and help paint the picture of the why. So, Pacific Life saw a need, and not something that we typically do starting a new business unit within the company. Let's take that time machine back four years and help us understand the why.

[00:02:01] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah, absolutely. I think that the Institutional Business was really born out of the Horizon 2025 strategy that the organization undertook.

[00:02:09] Brian Woolfolk: And really was one of the major growth pillars of, of that strategy was to really build out an Institutional Business. We took some product lines from around the organization, combined them into what is now the Institutional Division, and really brought forth a strategy to help grow that.

[00:02:26] Brian Woolfolk: Really, it was built on three things. One, strong market demand for the products that are available today. The financial strength of Pacific Life, which is very much sought out. And then third, to be able to take advantage of our investing capabilities. That was really the reason why we were created but looking forward to, the future now, at this point.

[00:02:45] Jim Breen: And help me understand, maybe you can throw some adjectives or just a general feeling of mindset, perhaps. What were you thinking at that moment at the beginning to where you are now?

[00:03:00] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah, I'm not sure I can say what I was thinking on the pod at the time, but it was... we had some very lofty kind of goals and expectations for ourselves. When we started out, there was 21 of us at the beginning of 2020, just around. It was, like I mentioned, bringing product lines from around the organization together. There was 20 individuals and myself that came together on day one.

[00:03:25] Brian Woolfolk: Today, we're plus or minus 140. So significant growth in terms of both people and talent that we've added, but also assets under management there as well. But it was really about planning for the future. So expecting success.

[00:03:40] Brian Woolfolk: That was one of the things we talked about as a small team at that time was we're going into this expecting that we're going to be successful. And it's the age old thing of, "Hey, I know it's impossible, but if it wasn't, what would you do?" And so we laid out this journey of where we were going to approach things and how we were going to look at things.

[00:03:57] Brian Woolfolk: So, I really break up the four years into three distinct categories. The first is, I call it that 12 to 18 month amount of time, which was really what I consider just the getting up and running, right? So, that was the process, procedure, governance, making sure that we have everything that we need to be able to effectively operate as a business.

[00:04:20] Brian Woolfolk: That next 12 to 18 months; so, taking us through the kind of the three year mark, was really about what are those transformational things we're going to do? And I think we'll talk about. a couple of those here in a minute. But just that next 18 months was so critical to set us up for year four and beyond, which is really around execution and driving those efficiencies in terms of how do we get better? How do we do more? How do we touch more participants? How do we touch more customers? How do we get The Wave Strength Podcast the number one podcast in the world? These are the things I'm thinking about.

[00:04:54] Jim Breen: We're on our way.

[00:04:56] Brian Woolfolk: Yes, certainly. There are hundreds and hundreds of views so far.

[00:04:59] Jim Breen: Exactly right. And you go back when you talked about the initiation, the beginning of the business unit. 21 people, right? And many people don't realize that obviously something very new for our organization as an enterprise to start a unique business unit like that.

[00:05:20] Jim Breen: But doing so, Brian, weeks before a global pandemic.

[00:05:25] Brian Woolfolk: No doubt.

[00:05:26] Jim Breen: Maybe you can, again, not to continue to go into the past, but I think that's an important story to tell. And as we lay the foundation of today's episode, I think for people to understand the complexity of, "Holy cow, we're moving to a permanent remote." and also, "Holy cow, we're starting a brand new business here," right?

[00:05:48] Brian Woolfolk: It was nonsense, first of all, Jim. In terms of the environment that we were in at the time, we were, as you say, eight weeks into a division build trying to recruit, trying to select the best talent, trying to figure out where our strategies were to set us up for the future. Oh, by the way, everyone has to go home, and can't be around each other. And that's a real challenge when you're talking about building from 21 people to 140 people, building and maintaining a culture.

[00:06:16] Brian Woolfolk: What we did is we were able to turn that into a positive, right? We were able to turn that into what are the opportunities, where can we focus, what advantages do we have as an organization opened up our recruiting base, right?

[00:06:29] Brian Woolfolk: About a third of our employees in the division are remote. Now that we're back in a hybrid environment, which, for those that don't speak corporate speak, that's part time in the office, part time at home depending on the week. So, really that opportunity for us to be able to get and be focused, there was nothing else going on in the world, right?

[00:06:49] Brian Woolfolk: So, we were able to stay focused and stay connected. People weren't really going anywhere so it was about maintaining that connection, and really driving forward as a unit.

[00:06:58] Jim Breen: Opening up the opportunity at larger talent pools, finding unique talent that otherwise we would have been limited prior to the pandemic. Also I think that you leaned into that quite a bit and boy, what a robust and diverse team we have right now, now that we're outside and we've moved on the other side of the pandemic.

[00:07:18] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah, no doubt about it. I think the access to talent was really one of our keys to success. I talk about the growth here of 21 people to 140, when you get a chance to select, you can select the best and brightest, you can select the top quartile talent and that's what we've done.

[00:07:34] Jim Breen: Absolutely. That's excellent. We've had some big leaps in the last several months too with this natural progression of growth. As the teams grow, naturally, focus and strategies grow with it. One of the things that we've done is we've added Head of our Institutional Retirement Solutions Group, Karen Neeley, an important part of that strategy.

[00:08:02] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah, I'm, very excited to have Karen on the team. She joined us last fall. She has a tremendous background in really helping us bring together our pension risk transfer business and what we call our defined contribution lifetime income or DCLI. So, lifetime income, inside of 401(k) plans.

[00:08:17] Jim Breen: So, Brian, obviously as you've mentioned, a big focus, DCLI, and Mike Oler leading that team, and a lot of great efforts already underway.

[00:08:25] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. Mike and the team are doing a great job bringing us into that market.

[00:08:28] Jim Breen: Another, unique part of our business, Brian, that, has just grown significantly our, capital markets team, now our Global Institutional Investment Group headed by, Joe Krum, can you share a little bit about the unique elements of what Joe does, and why it's so important to our Institutional Business?

[00:08:51] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. The program that Joe and team have been able to set up has been a phenomenal success. The fact that we started four years ago was zero in assets, to today where we're at with one of the largest programs in the industry. I think depending on the day, we may be third or fourth, in that environment. But just an incredibly strong team. Very deep knowledge of the capital markets. Always on the phone.

[00:09:20] Brian Woolfolk: If you talk to Joe, he'll tell you that he often lives East Coast hours, which, for individuals on the West Coast, is not always the easiest thing to do. But early calls, lots of decisions to be made, traveling around the globe, talking to investors, in our program. So, it's very exciting what we've been able to do over the first four years.

[00:09:39] Jim Breen: Very much so. Even from a marketing perspective too, some of the stories we've been able to tell from a sustainability standpoint, connecting to some of the CSR efforts that Pacific Life, in general, has, committed to. It's been quite the journey and a great experience.

[00:09:55] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah, no doubt about it.

[00:09:56] Brian Woolfolk: And I also give you and your team a lot of credit during the pandemic of being able to provide for when roadshows and investor conferences were remote to be able to put on a more production type environment. To be able to put the team in a position where they were putting their best foot forward.

[00:10:15] Jim Breen: Thank you, Brian. I appreciate that. That's high praise. And that is, I think, a testament to what I'd like to get into in one of the next segments of about how our ecosystem, if you will, I know I've heard you use that word many times, but our ecosystem is set up such that we can take these risks, try new technologies, or implementations that perhaps are new to the industry.

[00:10:41] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah.

[00:10:41] Jim Breen: And really push on that gas pedal and see where it leads us. So, we've done that with some of those technologies.

[00:10:48] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. It's interesting that you use the, term 'stepping on the gas'. Our three kind of strategic focus areas as a division are grow, achieve, and scale. And maybe we'll get back to that in a little bit. So grow, achieve, and scale, or gas, stepping on the gas as an institutional business.

[00:11:03] Brian Woolfolk: But I think when you talk about innovation and you talk about doing new stuff, it's hard, right? It's not always going to be successful. So, being able to celebrate not only the successes, but taking that opportunity to celebrate your failures and where you're learning and being able to apply that back into the system is incredibly powerful.

[00:11:21] Jim Breen: It is. It really is. And so, Brian, I want to get into, you mentioned gas and some of the ways in which your leadership, especially at the beginning there with those 21 folks, allowed us to get to where we are today.

[00:11:39] Jim Breen: But, I think there's a unique story to tell here because you and the team four years ago had some pretty lofty goals, that were, basically asked of you at the beginning.

[00:11:51] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah.

[00:11:52] Jim Breen: And you've made some important, and I think, impressive progress in that short time.

[00:11:58] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. No doubt, Jim.

[00:11:59] Brian Woolfolk: And it's, certainly not about me. It's definitely the team. When I look at the lofty, ambitious, aspirational, the goals that we had set out for ourselves at the end of 2019 to where we stand today in the early 2024, were significant. Whether you call that exciting, whether you call it a little bit scary, I would say, yeah, it's a little bit of both.

[00:12:20] Brian Woolfolk: I won't go into detail about what the specific goals we had for ourselves. Of course, there was a growth component to that, there was a profitability component to that. I'm pleased to say that at the end of the four years, we've exceeded where we expected to be at the end of five years. So being able to be ahead of schedule is a great thing and we're excited to continue on that trajectory.

[00:12:40] Jim Breen: That's fantastic. And as we say internally, it's a 'ring the bell' moment where we really want to celebrate that. And as you say, it takes a team. It really does take a team.

[00:12:52] Jim Breen: And looking, we talked a little bit about setting the team up during a global pandemic. Can you share, Brian, maybe something that surprised you the most during that time? When you were starting this team and working to grow the team, what was something during that pandemic early on that surprised you the most?

[00:13:13] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. It probably shouldn't be surprising, but it's the level of commitment that not only our team had, but from the rest of the organization, right?

[00:13:22] Brian Woolfolk: There was, again, March of 2020, there was a lot going on in the world, and just the ability and the support that we received across the organization to help set up new things. We talked about the spread lending program, setting up a funding agreement back note program from scratch, being able to be in the market by June of 2020 with that when the world had effectively shut down. These are significant examples of just the support that we got across the organization. I think we all knew coming in that the size and scale and financial strength that Pacific Life was going to really help us in this market but I think just the continued support across the organization to help us to create something very exciting is one thing I think of.

[00:14:11] Jim Breen: Another success; the implementation of our new administrative platform, excuse me. a big undertaking during the global pandemic to help streamline our communication processes.

[00:14:24] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah, no, no doubt about it. I think when, specifically for our pension risk transfer business, we really looked at three areas that we needed to invest in, and that was around our pricing capabilities, our administrative capabilities. So, being able to have access to be able to quote on an issue, different types of plans and plan benefits as well as our investment capabilities.

[00:14:45] Brian Woolfolk: And we've worked on all three of those over the first four years, but the most significant, I would say, is just our ability, to be nimble, to be able to innovate on the technology side, and really think about how we're going to be different moving forward. I think we were a little bit lucky in terms of our business that we had limited legacy systems from that standpoint. We did have some and we've been addressing those; that was in the three timelines I talked about. That's really where we, where we looked at it from was, "Okay, that was the way of the past. What are we moving forward with in the future?" And the tools available to us today are significantly ahead of where we were if we were sitting here four years ago.

[00:15:27] Jim Breen: Let's talk defined contribution lifetime income. So, some great advancement on that front. We've had some great collaborations, both with Wespath, and more recently Franklin Templeton.

[00:15:41] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. Yeah. Very excited about our partnerships. I think the Wespath a great example that you bring up, being able to incorporate our qualified longevity annuity contract into their retirement plan has been a real success, both for them and for us.

[00:15:56] Brian Woolfolk: And that's something we're excited to bring to other plan sponsors and bring that opportunity out there. And then the recently announced Franklin Templeton partnership; two world class firms working together. We've had a longstanding relationship with Franklin for a number of years, and significant opportunity for us to really drive that forward.

[00:16:17] Brian Woolfolk: When you think about lifetime income inside of defined contributions plans, it's so needed.

[00:16:21] Jim Breen: Absolutely. That retirement wellness and focusing on that is so important and so much more to do, so much more opportunity, but a lot of great work, to date. Speaking of, you mentioned the Global Institutional Investment Group, Joe Krum's team. Another big success in 2021, at the time, the largest sustainable bond issuance, to date.

[00:16:49] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. $800 million.

[00:16:50] Jim Breen: Yeah.

[00:16:50] Brian Woolfolk: That's significant, right? You think about all the work that went into that, it was really a eight or a nine week sprint for the organization; cross functional team. Again, the support that you get from those that are outside the Institutional Business ,really phenomenal from beginning to end in terms of being able to from ideation, to being in the market, to issue an $800 million sustainability bond, that's.... My hat's off.

[00:17:17] Jim Breen: And the list goes on and on. We can continue to go down that list. Another thing that I know we're very proud of, and we consider this a success as well, is how our Institutional Business team, and the company at large, we, give back to the community, engage in the communities in which we do business. And not to call you out and embarrass you, Brian, but you are on the board for the United Way of the Midlands.

[00:17:43] Brian Woolfolk: That's correct.

[00:17:44] Jim Breen: And I know you have a deep appreciation and desire that's always been part of your DNA that give back. Maybe share a little bit about how you've brought that into the Institutional Business team.

[00:17:55] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. I think it's important. You mentioned it's part of my DNA. It's also part of the company's DNA, which I think was one of the things that drew me here in the beginning way back in 2010 when I joined the organization was just the commitment to the community and encouraging and providing incentives for employees to give back, right? We've all been very fortunate, but to be able to give back to those that are less fortunate than us and to help them grow and to help them learn and to help them see a future I think is really important.

[00:18:26] Brian Woolfolk: You mentioned United Way of the Midlands; I'm the current board chair there so that's been a great experience, there for that. I'm also the board chair of the Jobs for Americans Graduates in Nebraska, so a significantly amazing program, just in terms of being able to bring education to students that otherwise wouldn't see a path forward to be able to say, "Hey, here is your path to go to college. Here is your path to go get to a technical college or degree from that standpoint to be able to start your career," and learn some of these things that they may not have otherwise learned in their path in life so far about how to shake someone's hand, how to introduce yourself, what you wear to an interview, doing on site job shadows of going to the trucking company and doing the tour there.

[00:19:15] Brian Woolfolk: I was fortunate enough to be able to attend that. It was amazing. So those are a couple of things that I've been involved with personally. Pacific Life, just in general, and the foundation, really encourages...

[00:19:27] Jim Breen: The Pacific Life Foundation.

[00:19:28] Brian Woolfolk: The Pacific Life Foundation. Yeah, definitely encourages us, you and I, to go out into the community. If we volunteer a certain number of hours, they're going to commit a certain dollar amount. If we get a group of us together, they're going to donate even more. Again, trying to bring that community, not only to the employees, but out into where we work and live.

[00:19:50] Jim Breen: It's important. And I agree that was something early on in my career with Pacific Life I noticed that it was part of the culture; it was not just something that was talked about or put in a memo. It was, you go to that event and there are senior level management everywhere you look. Whether it's at the beach cleanup or building the playground, or like you say, even something like where you're helping folks understand what it means to get that job or, put their best foot forward.

[00:20:21] Jim Breen: And I think that's an important part of what we do as a company, also an Institutional team. Even next week, we have our annual Setting the Stage event. And I think we've set aside one of the afternoons for an actual event where we're going to be giving back.

[00:20:38] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. To not take the opportunity when we're all together, which doesn't happen very often because we are across the country to be able to do a team building event and give back to the community. It's a no brainer.

[00:20:51] Jim Breen: Yeah, absolutely. As I mentioned, so many things to talk about in terms of successes and we only have a short amount of time. However, I would love to talk a little, you mentioned GAS: grow, achieve, scale. And we hear you mention that, and we use that within the Institutional Business team. But Brian, I think a lot of that has to do, a lot of these successes, there's a certain... you, heard me, and you've said this before, use the word ecosystem. There's a certain ecosystem that we have that I think the leaders within our business team adhere to and follow.

[00:21:29] Jim Breen: And I see this in a lot of the guidance that you provide. Allowing folks to innovate, not be afraid to make mistakes as long as we're learning as we move forward, and to push those boundaries in our chosen areas of the market.

[00:21:49] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah.

[00:21:49] Jim Breen: Maybe you could speak a little bit about that.

[00:21:51] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. As you know, I feel strongly about putting people in the right places and getting out of their way. We hire people to do their jobs; let's allow them to do that. I view my role as removing roadblocks, helping with strategy, succession planning, really helping think about the future of where we're going to go.

[00:22:11] Brian Woolfolk: But if we're talking about marketing for the Institutional Business. Have at it, Jim. And I even recall back to September of 2019 after I'd been announced for this job, guess who walks in my office? It was this guy about, "Hey, I've got some ideas about how we can talk about the division, talk about these things." And guess what, this is one of those things.

[00:22:33] Brian Woolfolk: Here is The Wave Strength Podcast. And really trying to bring that forward, to be able to tell our story in a different way.

[00:22:40] Jim Breen: I think that was at the top of the list, quite frankly.

[00:22:42] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah.

[00:22:43] Jim Breen: And that is true. That's a great story and you have a great memory. And yeah, a testament to, I think, a lot of the ways in which we are able to just look at a problem in the market, or, in the processes that we look at every day for our choosing roles.

[00:23:04] Jim Breen: And we are able to try new things to work on solutions that perhaps folks have not even thought of yet using new technologies, or existing technologies, in the case of this podcast. Nothing new. Podcasts are like belly buttons; everybody has one. But how can we utilize some of these SEO strategies, et cetera, to get the message out there and make this a conversational opportunity.

[00:23:26] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. For me, it's about getting the right people, putting them in the right place to build the right partnerships, with external, that we've mentioned here, some of them today that are going to build the right products that are going to ultimately bring us to our growth.

[00:23:40] Jim Breen: Brian, you say growth. So obviously significant growth continued in innovation. As we're now looking to the fifth year.

[00:23:49] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah.

[00:23:50] Jim Breen: What's next? Let's talk about that growth and where are we moving?

[00:23:54] Brian Woolfolk: Some of it's a continuation of the journey that we've been on. So, we have some rather established product lines. So, as I mentioned, our pension risk transfer. Now that we're established in the spread lending market, we're going to continue to maintain and grow that.

[00:24:08] Brian Woolfolk: Our stable value wrap business, another mature market. So, we're very excited about those. You look back 10 or 12 years, the pension risk transfer market was a billion dollars a year total. Okay. Now, it's plus or minus any given year, $50 billion a year. So, there's a ton of opportunity out there to help de risk the pension plans.

[00:24:26] Brian Woolfolk: In fact, there's over $3 trillion out there available today. So, that's a significant opportunity over the next 10 or 20 years for the organization. So, I expect to see us continue to grow there. But the one that I'm personally the most excited about is our defined contribution lifetime income, or DCLI. And that's a game changer for us.

[00:24:49] Brian Woolfolk: So, we talk about PRT, pension risk transfer, being our pensions market of today. Talk about defined contribution lifetime income as our pensions market of tomorrow. And really about bridging that gap of only 15% of American workers have access to a pension plan today currently. That's not a whole lot, right? There's a retirement crisis that we're all going to be facing into the future here. How do we bridge that gap from number one, getting savings to increase, but two, being able to provide a protected lifetime income solution inside of your retirement plan that is going to be there for you when it is time. That a significant, opportunity that I'm excited about.

[00:25:31] Jim Breen: Absolutely. So many opportunities, as you say. And we, definitely have a team that is hungry, that's excited for these opportunities to uncover new ways in which we can achieve those goals.

[00:25:45] Jim Breen: So, another part of that growth story is our pension risk transfer, PRT team. Truly, I guess the original Institutional group, if I understand correctly, within Pacific Life's enterprise years ago. Now in our Institutional Business team and a fast moving, a growing team at that.

[00:26:06] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. No doubt about it. And Russ and team have done a significant job here of moving us from $100 million a year to now we're a multi billion a year, aspiring to be even higher than that, into the future, from a PRT standpoint.

[00:26:22] Brian Woolfolk: I talked about all the different components of it. We talked about the pricing techniques. So, the pricing team has done a significant job there. We talked about the operational piece from the administrative capabilities, but then also being able to bring it to market and to be able to tell the Pacific Life story in that market is important.

[00:26:40] Jim Breen: Very important.

[00:26:41] Jim Breen: A great team. Great success there. Also looking beyond there to our stable value wrap team with Maya T. Pillai and all the great work that she's been up to.

[00:26:53] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. And another tremendous example of a small but mighty team that has really provided great successes in that stable value market. Stable value, if you're not familiar, is a conservative option inside of a 401(k) plan. Really being able to help us grow our assets, there and we've had significant growth since the beginning of the division there as well. So, another job well done.

[00:27:14] Jim Breen: Absolutely. And also our HSA, our Health Savings Account, team, with Christine Bass at the lead.

[00:27:22] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. So, we talked about innovation a little bit earlier, and this is one of those examples of entering into a market with our Institutional fixed annuities that didn't really exist, right?

[00:27:32] Brian Woolfolk: So, being able to provide a cash alternative in an HSA, health savings account, has been a significant growth story for us. So, we're excited about that into the future as well. So, successes all across the board, which, I guess, if you look at the results, you would say, "Hey, that's a team that's hitting on all cylinders."

[00:27:49] Jim Breen: Yeah. Absolutely. So, Brian, another unique part of Pacific Life's is. is 155+ years of financial strength and stability, right? And we have this mutually held company that has a very clear vision on how we can best help our clients and customers, and I think really that comes down, on our business level, to a lot of the financial strength and guidance that our CFO, Paul Hance, provides us with.

[00:28:22] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. That's right, Jim. As I think about it, when you talk about Pacific Life, you talk about 155 years. Our goal is to make sure that the next 155 years are just as successful, but most importantly, that the company is financially strong, right? That has strong financial stability.

[00:28:39] Brian Woolfolk: And really, that's what our finance, risk, and actuarial teams wake up every single day and do; they help us grow, they help us grow in the right ways, and help us be there to fulfill our promises. When you're talking about taking over a pension plan, or you're talking about defined contribution lifetime income, these are 10, 20, 30, 50 year promises into the future, and you need to make sure you're choosing a company that's going to be around, like Pacific Life.

[00:29:04] Jim Breen: Absolutely. So, Brian,, obviously, to do everything you're talking about, it requires a lot of support, a lot of help from across the enterprise. And part of Pacific Life's structure recently has been organized to help in that way with those support roles.

[00:29:22] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. No doubt, Jim.

[00:29:23] Brian Woolfolk: And as I think about it, we have a leadership team as an Institutional Business, not all of those leaders report directly to me. Sarah, who's from our legal and compliance experts, she sits on the leadership team, and provides a great value from that standpoint.

[00:29:40] Brian Woolfolk: Keith, for example, our chief risk officer. Again, thinking about risk, thinking about how we can drive forward, and have success. And then also I look at our, business partner, Jasmine and Human Resources of being able to help us navigate development conversations, challenging conversations. Really thinking about as we develop as leaders and as individuals, where we're going to be when we grow up.

[00:30:04] Jim Breen: And HR in general has just been so supportive too, in so many ways, navigating through, as we've talked about, the pandemic; helping us understand what it means to be at that time, permanent remote, moving now into that hybrid environment that we currently work in. And just really being able to help us through those challenging times.

[00:30:28] Brian Woolfolk: Exactly. I think the only thing constant is change and being able to help through the change curve for all of us has been significant.

[00:30:34] Jim Breen: Absolutely. So, we talked a lot, Brian, about all these wonderful things that are happening within the Institutional Business team four years in; this all can't just happen overnight.

[00:30:45] Jim Breen: It helps to have strategy. It helps to have individuals in place that can build that vision and help everybody keep up with it and organize the vision. I know, Tandi LeFranc with our BSA, our business strategy acceleration group, have really helped and been such an integral part in that process.

[00:31:06] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. No doubt about it; it's the glue that really holds together the organization. It is an accelerator and hence the name business strategy acceleration. Being able to think about change management, to be able to think about innovation, to be able to think about project management, bringing it all together to be able to deliver a finished product.

[00:31:25] Jim Breen: And you talk about change management, you talk about that growth, and something connected to that admin platform update that we talked about, our operations team.

[00:31:35] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah.

[00:31:36] Jim Breen: So much happens behind the scenes. I know Scott McGill and others working very closely with all of our leaders within the division, along with Mike Porco's team to really build out those clear technology journeys that help us be successful.

[00:31:56] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah. technology is an enabler for us, and another accelerator to be able to use the tools and the techniques and what's available today to be able to help drive our business forward. So, it's almost this perfect storm of being able to come together as a division right when things are available that weren't available five years ago to be able to help us bring better experience to our customers, be able to have a more efficient platform that we're on. It's just been a tremendous delivery from that standpoint.

[00:32:28] Jim Breen: Yeah. Mike Porco has been such a great partner in our sometimes crazy ideas, from a marketing perspective. "Hey, what about this? Is this possible?" and, you talk about experience, too, working with Destiny, Laura, on some of the, educational opportunities and experience opportunities that, we have in store in the future. It's, very exciting. Yeah. and, truly a pleasure and a joy to, to work with this team.

[00:32:52] Brian Woolfolk: Yeah, I think if you boil it down to one word, it's a, it's excitement. Excitement, yeah. That's, what I would convey is, I, wake up every day excited to go solid. these, challenges with, with my colleagues. Exactly.

[00:33:05] Jim Breen: So

[00:33:05] Brian Woolfolk: Brian, let's talk about this mandate you have for Tie Tuesday.

[00:33:08] Brian Woolfolk: Oh, stop it, Jim. That's not a mandate. the origin of Tie Tuesday and appreciate you joining me on, on this Tie Tuesday was I was going through my closet at the end of, end of last year. And I was like, Hey, I got some really nice stuff. So I'm going to wear a tie every Tuesday. So that, is the origin story of Tie Tuesday and how we got to where we got.

[00:33:27] Jim Breen: I love it. That's good. Everybody loves a good origin story. That's perfect. There you go. And, with that, Brian, I appreciate your time and, sitting with us today, and, really unpacking these last, four years, so thank you very much for being with us. Crazy. Four years.

[00:33:43] Jim Breen: It's hard, to believe. Hard to believe. Feels like five minutes.

[00:33:46] Brian Woolfolk: I know.

[00:33:47] Jim Breen: I've had two kids. This is true. True story. my goodness. So yes, a little side note there. But. Brian, we always appreciate you joining us. Thanks for taking the time. And we'd love to have you back. Obviously. My pleasure. I appreciate you having me back.

[00:34:00] Jim Breen: It was a great opportunity and hit and subscribe. Yeah. As Brian said. Please, we want to encourage you to head over to YouTube, to Spotify, to Audible, search The Wave Strength. Don't forget to hit and subscribe so you can stay current with new episodes. And to our audience, I want to thank you for joining us and spending your time with us on another episode of The Wave Strength.

[00:34:21] Jim Breen: Thanks so much, and we'll see you next time.

[00:34:28] Voiceover: This has been another episode of The Wave Strength, presented by Pacific Life. Don't forget to catch us on YouTube and make sure to subscribe. Although this podcast is presented by Pacific life, the opinions and views expressed are those of the hosts and participants, and do not necessarily reflect Pacific life's views on any of the topics discussed.

[00:34:50] Voiceover: Unless otherwise noted, Pacific Life is unaffiliated with any other individual or company mentioned. Pacific Life is a product provider. It is not a fiduciary and therefore does not give advice or make recommendations regarding insurance or investment products. Pacific Life, its affiliates, its distributors, and respective representatives do not provide any employer sponsored Qualified Plan Administrative Services or impartial advice about investments and do not act in a fiduciary capacity for any plans.

[00:35:18] Voiceover: Pacific Life refers to Pacific Life Insurance Company and its subsidiary, Pacific Life and Annuity Company. Insurance products can be issued in all states except New York by Pacific Life Insurance Company and in all states by Pacific Life and Annuity Company. Product availability and features may vary by state.

[00:35:35] Voiceover: Each insurance company is solely responsible for the financial obligations accruing under the products it issues. This podcast was recorded on November 7th, 2023.

[00:35:52] Jim Breen: Thanks for joining us on today's show. We'd love to hear from you. Join the conversation below and leave a comment on your thoughts on what the industry can do better for participants as it pertains to lifetime income solutions. And if you'd like more interesting content, click one of these links over here.