Jim Breen: Understanding the advisor mindset.

Karen Neeley: It's a champion, it's a person there to help, or a firm there to help support the plan sponsor, or the employer do the right thing for their employees.

Jim Breen: The importance of strategic partnerships.

Lew Minsky: Trying to identify ways to develop holistic solutions and not solely focusing on the single product.

Jim Breen: And understanding the evolution of the institutional advisor.

Lew Minsky: We're just getting to a place where I think there's a market that's defining itself.

Jim Breen: All this and more on today's episode of The Wave Strength.

Voiceover: Welcome to The Wave Strength. Innovative Solutions for a Secure Retirement presented by Pacific Life.

Jim Breen: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Wave Strength podcast series. I'm your host, Jim Breen, head of marketing with Pacific Life's Institutional team. Joining us today in the studio is Pacific Life's Karen Neeley and DCIIA's Lew Minsky, Lew, Karen.

Jim Breen: thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy day and joining us in the studio.

Lew Minsky: Glad to be here.

Jim Breen: So thank you so much. So Karen vice president and head of the Institutional Retirement Solutions Group and Lew Minsky, the founder, CEO, and president and all things to DCIIA the Defined Contribution Institutional Investment Association.

Jim Breen: So a very important organization. Thank you, Lew. Thank you, Karen, for, for taking time to join us.

Lew Minsky: Yeah. Thrilled to be here.

Jim Breen: And for those familiar with the show, I want to encourage you to head over to YouTube, Spotify, and Audible and search The Wave Strength. You can check out the recent episode we did with Lew where he does a phenomenal job of unpacking what DCIIA is all about.

Jim Breen: The great work that DCIIA has currently underway. And how you can connect with DCIIA to become a member of that great organization. So that said, let's jump into today's conversation where we want to talk about the mindset of that advisor. You know, a lot of the great work Pacific Life has underway.

Jim Breen: Karen is very much focused on that. Lew, obviously all the great work that DCIIA has underway, Karen, perhaps you could maybe lay a little bit of groundwork about your thoughts about that mindset.

Karen Neeley: Sure, so as we've continued to transform and evolve at Pacific Life, one of the things that we recognize is the importance of the advisor and consultant community.

Karen Neeley: And I know this is something that's near and dear to Lew's heart as well. And as part of that, we've actually invested in a national markets function. So as we think through the importance of these DCLI solutions, defined contribution, lifetime income solutions. The importance of the advisor and the consultant and actually connecting plan sponsors to these critical solutions to help employers or plan sponsors bring these to their employees.

Karen Neeley: So we've invested under Chris Stout, who's got three decades of leadership in the record keeping space within him and his team. To really build out our presence and our support, if you will, for advisors and consultants, so that we can help them on this journey as it relates to lifetime income.

Jim Breen: And Chris is not just a fan of the show.

Jim Breen: He's been on the show. So yeah, a lot of great work that Chris Stout has done and has currently underway. So, so Lew, perhaps you can share a little bit about your, your thoughts as it pertains to the advisor and DCIIA.

Lew Minsky: Sure. Yeah. And we've been on a journey at DCIIA when we started the organization, it'll be 15 years ago in January the initial focus was very institutional in nature and it's a natural consequence of that a lot of the conversations we were having, a lot of the focus was with the traditional institutional investment consulting community.

Lew Minsky: And, over the years have gotten much more, involved with and, connected to the what I'd call the institutionally minded advisor community. So not the. RIAs who maybe are hobbyists in the D. C. space or might have a plan or two, but the, the individual advisors in the firms that are very focused on the retirement plan market and the approach they take to providing advice to plan sponsors is very similar to that of the institutional consulting community and so, as I've gotten to know that community more and more and engage with them been really, just blown away by the amount of innovation and really great work that's going on in that world.

Lew Minsky: And frankly, a lot of stuff that the advisors are doing that, the folks in the institutional community could learn from. So been really excited to spend more and more time with them.

Jim Breen: Perhaps Karen, you can share a little bit about your thoughts on, your time in the industry and maybe some of these shifts you've seen in that advisor mindset for the moment you kind of began in the industry to where we are today.

Karen Neeley: Sure. So I've been in this space for about two decades, really grew up on the record keeping side of the business. So, and the record keeping side, particularly on smaller plans, the advisor is king, right? And as you go larger market, the consultant firms, it starts to become, the word transitions from advisor to consultant, but it's the same thing.

Karen Neeley: It's a champion. It's a person there to help or a firm there to help support the plan sponsor or the employer do the right thing for their employees. Now, as income has evolved over these past two decades, it's critically important that we have these partners, that we have these champions and the advisor and the consultant community.

Karen Neeley: Helping to guide plans to this, and we're seeing, research is showing, and there's a lot of research that's being done through DCIIA and through partnering firms to show the importance of of the solutions from a plan sponsor and employer lens. There's an increased recognition that, as we think through the retirement crisis, decumulation is going to be a key piece that we need to solve for.

Karen Neeley: So the importance of educating this community of advisors and consultants, of leaning into them as a key partner and helping, because they are going to be the ones that help plan sponsors really get through this inertia in order to bring these critical solutions to their employees.

Jim Breen: You know, you talked about something that I'd love to dive a little deeper on education.

Jim Breen: Lew, we were with each other earlier today discussing with Chris Stout and Chris McGlynn over lunch your thoughts about the advisor and you brought up something that Karen touched on here, which was that education component, that ability, I think as you said it, the ability for us as an industry to really, Bring folks into a conversation to communicate in a way that we really haven't been doing well on with this industry, right?

Jim Breen: Where we often we front load the product information, for example, or we just expect that everybody else understands what we're trying to talk about. Maybe share your thoughts about that education, that ability to bring people into the conversation.

Lew Minsky: Yeah. I mean, I'd say what I see often reflexively in this industry is, a focus first and foremost on product, right?

Lew Minsky: Here's my product. And then in effort to talk at people, to sell that product instead of starting by having a dialogue with them. Find out what the problems are that they're trying to solve and then work with them on developing solutions that ultimately connect to products.

Lew Minsky: But I think if we start more often with building a framework around why we're having the conversation and what it is we're trying to solve, then we'll get a lot further. And I think, particularly with that advisor community. I mean, they're very sophisticated.

Lew Minsky: They're critically important. And to Karen's point, I'd say in some ways, more important as intermediaries than their consulting brethren, because the plan sponsors they serve don't have the same bandwidth. Don't have necessarily the same resources and expertise that, major employers have so that they play this critically important role in educating their plan sponsor clients and getting them comfortable with innovation and potential solutions.

Lew Minsky: So, I think the more that we can bring them in as partners in a a solutions based conversation instead of view them as you know, marketing targets, I think just better for everyone.

Karen Neeley: I think to that point, and you in excellent points, as you think through the conversion of the conversation from products to solutions, the complexity of income is that it's not one size fits all.

Karen Neeley: The benefit of income is that it's not one size fits all. So, as we're trying to personalize these solutions and really bring the conversation to plan sponsors. We need the education through those key partners, because what's good for plan ABC might not be the same thing that's good for plan DEF, and it may not be the same thing at time zero for plan ABC as it is three years from now or five years from now, like these solutions are powerful tools.

Karen Neeley: We're working together and understanding the underlying demographics of the plan, understanding the overall desire of the plan. We can truly bring what you mentioned in a previous podcast, the DB-ization to D. C., in a really meaningful way. But more importantly, in a personalized way, that's going to be impactful for that plan and impactful for that plan's employees.

Lew Minsky: Yeah. And by the way, maybe even more nimble, more personalized than you could in a traditional DB plan. So, it's great to think about the DBization of DC, but maybe, maybe there's an opportunity to, to go beyond where we've been historically.

Karen Neeley: Yeah, absolutely.

Jim Breen: And I know we're discussing the advisor mindset, but like thinking about that participant, right?

Jim Breen: Every we're talking about journey, we're talking about that personalization process. We sometimes forget, especially as we talked about in the beginning of this episode product. Well, here's the product and you know, several of us all were in a room talking about this product and we feel it's the best product of all the products.

Jim Breen: And you need to know this product, but we forget right to think about how that, particular product will fit into a solution that is going to meet that individual where they are at that unique stage of their life, because as even the three of us sitting here on this set, each of us are in different stages.

Jim Breen: You know, Lew, you and I, we were talking about you have two daughters, two of my daughters are similar age distance to yours, but different stages of their lives. And I'm looking at you for wisdom on how I can walk through some of the challenges I'm experiencing, right? With the stage of where my daughters are.

Karen Neeley: We're going to need another show for that.

Jim Breen: Not to mention my boys, my, you know, with all five kids, like, well, my goodness. But the fact that each of us Karen, you as well with everything that we've talked about your kids, all these things. Different stages of our lives, which is beautiful, right?

Jim Breen: That that's what makes us unique. That's what gives each of us this opportunity to have this very unique spirit and bring these unique thoughts to the table, but we can't lose sight of the fact that everybody's on a different path.

Lew Minsky: Yeah. Well, it's part of what really, impressed me about the approach that you're taking to the market bringing.

Lew Minsky: Potential strategic partners together in the spirit of coopetition, trying to identify ways to develop holistic solutions and not solely focusing on the single product because, just having been at this for, for a little while now, it's, plan sponsors and ultimately their participants.

Lew Minsky: They need help here and they, they're ultimately going to need to feel comfortable that the water's warm and they're not going to be held to the standard of having to pick the single perfect solution because we know there is no single perfect solution at the end of the day, there are going to be a range of solutions.

Lew Minsky: As you mentioned, that makes sense. And those that range will probably very plan to plan individual to individual. But, I think it's great that you're bringing people together to try to identify what that solution set looks like and the kinds of platforms and processes that are going to be necessary to develop that you know, that partnership in the coopetition.

Karen Neeley: In the advisor community and consultant community, they're so critical to what we're doing in our path forward. So as you think through the necessity for these solutions to be personalized, the importance of that, the fact that it's not a one size fits all product on a shelf, but it's truly: What's the solution that makes the plan better and makes the employees better?

Karen Neeley: And what's in it for the advisor? A lot of the conversations that we're having in market with our advisor partners and consultant partners is it actually differentiates them. So in the sea of sameness that we're experiencing, that provides them the ability to go talk to plans who are interested in these solutions to have different conversations to think of income less of this,

Karen Neeley: opaque thing that we're all leaning towards and we know we need from a decumulation perspective, but to truly talk about the personalization and the elements and as you mentioned, even being able to personalize even beyond what's possible today, but to have those conversations and differentiate their own advisor practice.

Karen Neeley: So that's one of the things is we're partnering with the advisor and consultant community through a national markets team, really working to help build up that education to build up that literacy. So that the advisors and consultants can distinguish themselves among that sea of sameness in their conversations with plans.

Lew Minsky: Yeah, and I think as those advisors start to, figure this out they're going to realize that there are ways for them to, help their clients to develop, institutionally implemented income solutions through their plan, but also to connect that to their ongoing both retirement plan, wealth management practices in a way that's, win, win, win, and at the end of the day, when we can find solutions where everybody wins, that's, that's a pretty good place to be

Karen Neeley: completely agree. And I think as in plan, income adoption continues to increase, and we're all working together to make that number increase more and more across the industry. But to your point, that's going to naturally have that same impact on the individual market, because that education doesn't just stop at the institutional level that then conveys into the individual level as well.

Karen Neeley: So completely agree on the win win there.

Jim Breen: Yeah. And the personalization, such an important part of that conversation, you know, Pacific Life has such strong feelings and sees the value right in these strategic partnerships, which is, just a, a scene as a testament to your team, Karen, and a lot of the great work recently, with the Franklin Templeton and Pacific Life and others on deck.

Jim Breen: And as we wrap up this episode here, what I'd love to be able to do is get a little creative here and, and ask each of you. Right? Maybe what you see as a defining moment as we look into the future from the mindset of that advisor, what do you see is that important next step?

Jim Breen: And maybe it is something that you could, as I've mentioned in other episodes, wave a magic wand to change, to alter. But what, let's talk about that next step. And Lew, I'll pass it to you first. What do you see is that maybe potential defining moment as we look into the future in the mindset of the advisor?

Lew Minsky: Yeah, I'll answer in two ways. I mean, one, I think, we're just getting to a place where I think there's a market that's defining itself for, what I, at least colloquially referred to as the institutionally minded advisor, The real expert. so one is, I, I'd love to see that market further define itself because I think, it's a great opportunity for the advisors that live in that space to differentiate themselves and to continue to build their practices.

Lew Minsky: And then, I think, as they are able to do that, Moving away from the, the product conversation to a holistic conversation around solutions really presents a great opportunity for all of us, as we further, institutionalize in, small, I sense the, retirement saving system, we, we move to a system that that's as inclusive as it can and should be, That, the where the default is success and not failure and I think the advisors are going to play a critical role in.

Lew Minsky: And in us getting there, particularly for, smaller to mid sized employers.

Jim Breen: Very helpful.

Lew Minsky: Thank you, Lew.

Jim Breen: Karen. What do you see as you look into the future?

Karen Neeley: Yeah, I completely agree with everything Lew said. And then I would add QDIA. So default solutions for decumulation, we've seen over the past 20 years, what default solutions help with autos and auto accumulation, auto escalation, and the importance and the movement that had on just the overall DC industry.

Karen Neeley: We need to have that same level of regulatory support, if you will, on the decumulation side of the curve. And I think as more of us band together with that magic wand and, and really try to push the importance of that across the industry, that's going to be the real gate opener, if you will, where the floodgates open and you truly, truly see the adoption of income that, you know, we're all sitting in this room trying to drive forward for.

Jim Breen: Fantastic. Well, great answers and what a great opportunity to spend time with both of you to learn more about the advisor mindset Karen, as it pertains to that Pacific Life perspective and Lew from that DCIIA perspective Lew, a lot of great work that DCIIA has underway. How can folks connect with DCIIA and learn more about the great work that you have on deck?

Lew Minsky: Okay. First step is always going to the website, DCIIA. org, you know, check it out and You know, if you're interested in learning more, you can always reach out to me directly or click on the contact us link on the website, and we'll be happy to bring you into the community.

Jim Breen: Fantastic. Thanks so much for the great collaboration, Lew, with you, DCIIA, Peg, the whole team.

Jim Breen: We really appreciate that. Karen, always a pleasure having you on the show as well. And to our audience, I want to thank you for spending time with us today on The Wave Strength. And I want to encourage you to head over to YouTube, Spotify, and Audible. Hit like, and subscribe so that you can stay current with new content as it becomes available.

Jim Breen: Thanks again. And we'll see you next time, everyone.

Voiceover: This has been another episode of The Wave Strength presented by Pacific Life. Don't forget to catch us on YouTube and make sure to subscribe. Although this podcast is presented by Pacific Life, the opinions and views expressed are those of the hosts and participants, and do not necessarily reflect Pacific Life's views on any of the topics discussed.

Voiceover: Unless otherwise noted, Pacific Life is unaffiliated with any other individual or company mentioned. Pacific Life is a product provider. It is not a fiduciary, and therefore does not give advice or make recommendations regarding insurance or investment products. Pacific Life, its affiliates, its distributors, and respective representatives do not provide any employer sponsored qualified plan administrative services or impartial advice about investments and do not act in a fiduciary capacity for any plan.

Voiceover: Pacific Life refers to Pacific Life Insurance Company and its subsidiary, Pacific Life & Annuity Company. Insurance products can be issued in all states except New York by Pacific Life Insurance Company and in all states by Pacific Life & Annuity Company. Product availability and features may vary by state.

Voiceover: Each insurance company is solely responsible for the financial obligations accruing under the products at issues. This podcast was recorded on September 25th, 2024.

Jim Breen: Thanks for

Jim Breen: joining us on today's show. We'd love to hear from you join the conversation below and leave a comment on your thoughts on what the industry can do better for participants as it pertains to lifetime income solutions. And if you'd like more interesting content, click one of these links over here.