Jim Breen: Welcoming Shane Dawe to the Pacific Life team.

Shane Dawe: Great to leverage a lot of the experience that I've gotten over the last, oh boy, 24 years or so.

Jim Breen: Landing the plane.

Shane Dawe: Good luck landing the plane on their own.

Jim Breen: Helping participants understand their unique journey.

Shane Dawe: We're living longer, so we're going to need money for a longer period of time.

Shane Dawe: How am I going to make that happen?

Shane Dawe: All this and more on today's episode of The Wave Strength.

VO: Welcome to The Wave Strength, innovative solutions for a secure retirement presented by Pacific Life.

Jim Breen: Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of The Wave Strength podcast series. I'm your host, Jim Breen, head of marketing with Pacific Life's Institutional team, We're excited to be here in the studio today, joined by one of Pacific Life's newest team members, Shane Dawe.

Jim Breen: Shane, thanks so much for joining us today in the studio for this quick chat.

Shane Dawe: Good to be here as big fan of this podcast, and really excited to be a part of the team.

Jim Breen: Great Shane, thank you so much, and with your role, the senior advisor relations director, in the Institutional Retirement Solutions Group here in our Institutional team, perhaps you can share a little bit about your role, and this important part of our institutional strategy.

Shane Dawe: Sure. again, great to be here and great to leverage a lot of the experience that I've gotten over the last boy, 24 years or so, 24 years.

Jim Breen: Yeah, that's amazing. That's amazing. yeah, let's maybe go back in time here a little bit in the, pretend time machine and just understand a little bit about where you were, who was Shane Dawe those 24 years ago and maybe walk us through, that history, that journey that you've had in the industry.

Shane Dawe: Sure, I would sum up my experience really, working with, started working with participants, which, as I think about now, really helps, with what we're going to be doing, because I always have that lens of the participant, right? And that's who we're working for. That's the solutions that we're creating.

Shane Dawe: That's who they're intended for, so my journey started really early on educating participants just about what is a 401k plan, why they should participate, why they should get involved, and I was, I had the opportunity to move past that and actually begin to sell, retirement plans, and then the last seven years with an asset manager talking more about the solutions, the target dates, obviously big conversation, again, all these investment tools.

Shane Dawe: What I'm most excited about now obviously is to take all that and finish what we've started and that is providing the end solution for the participant and that is retirement income.

Jim Breen: I'm so excited to hear you talk about the participant, you know our Institutional team started almost five years ago a couple weeks ahead of the pandemic and we had to very quickly find these unique ways in which we can show up differently, unique ways in which we can think about the participant, and that's really been at a, at the beginning of this division, such an important part of our DNA, if you will, creating these solutions, utilizing products that will help them in their own unique journey.

Jim Breen: And I think a lot of it comes down to these individual stories that each of these participants, ourselves included, live. My life is not your life, is not somebody else's life. We all live these different lives and we are on different journeys and, so really it comes down to that ability to understand, take a step back and, maybe truly feel where they are and provide that personalization.

Shane Dawe: Yeah, absolutely. We are participants. And I say the same thing to advisors, consultants, you're a participant too. So a plan sponsors, same thing. They are decision makers on behalf of all their participants, but they too are participants. So a lot of times what they need, it's what their participants need too.

Shane Dawe: When it comes to retirement income, some of the experience that I had, distributing these early on by early on it was 2006 where the need was not there like it is today, we all know what happened two years after 2006, where people started to wake up to the fact that oh boy I might actually need these idea of guarantees or having this protection or something to refer to as a guardrail in retirement are important for participants.

Shane Dawe: I always use my father as an example He was one of those participants where, you know, he, wanted it done for him. He didn't have the knowledge, didn't want to have the knowledge to make those decisions on his own. So it was do it for me. And that works for a lot of participants, but I think the problem that we're having and we need advisors help in delivering these ultimately, is we got to finish what we started.

Shane Dawe: And I'll use the analogy of flying a plane. All right. Now imagine you're passenger on a plane, you're a few miles from LAX or whatever airport and the pilot gets on and he says, we're, a few miles been a good ride, the co pilot and I actually have our parachutes on though.

Shane Dawe: We're going to exit stage right. Good luck landing the plane on their own. In a way that's what we're doing with participants. We've gotten them so close to the finish line. And we think they're going to be okay on their own when these are the same participants who didn't know how much to save or the fact that they should even save on their own, they didn't know where to save in terms of investments.

Shane Dawe: And as an industry, I think we've done with the advisors help. We've done a great job helping them with the accumulation years. I'll call it, but we have to finish and we have to land on the plane.

Jim Breen: And it's so interesting too, because occasionally you can say, is there a pilot on the plane and occasionally there's a person that says, I know a little bit about it.

Jim Breen: I could probably, with the, the air traffic control land, the plane, maybe with a little help. Yeah. But the majority of those passengers say, I have no idea. They are, I thought you were doing that for me, right? They are tightening their seatbelt. I thought I was going to wake up when we landed and just go on to my next destination.

Jim Breen: So I think that's a great way to think about it in that, we need to finish what we started and each of those participants, they are on that unique journey and, even training the trainer, right? The folks that have to, really build these resources or help those participants through that journey.

Jim Breen: There's a lot that has to be done even beyond just the participant level.

Jim Breen: Yeah.

Jim Breen: And perhaps you can share Shane some insights into, these 24 years that you've been in the industry. What has struck you as, the most interesting? Be it a mindset shift, be it something that you've seen in the industry through legislation, but in these 24 years, perhaps you can share a view on what your, biggest surprises.

Shane Dawe: I spent a lot of time with advisors, especially over the last 15 of those 24 years. Really good sense of what's working out there and what's not, because at the end of the day, we also want to help advisors, separate themselves from what I call the sea of sameness.

Jim Breen: The sea of sameness. I like that.

Shane Dawe: We all say, advisors by and large say the same things and they would come to me and they would say, "Shane, maybe you can help me with some of your experience. Why can't I move this plan forward? Why can't I win this piece of business? There's four of us competing for the same business and we're not moving anything for forward here." And I gotta be really honest with them and say, Hey, You need to figure out how to be that red in the field of green and separate yourself because you all sound alike.

Shane Dawe: So why would a plan sponsor make that decision? It's hard, right? Because I don't know if I'm going to pick Shane. I'm going to pick Jim. I don't know who I'm going to pick because you all sound alike. What I submit to a lot of advisors right now is it's time to change that conversation. It's time to move forward and start.

Shane Dawe: Don't dismiss the accumulation stuff. But really start to hone in on the deaccumulation. Think about it. Most retirement plans right now, the bulk of their assets, maybe as much as 70 percent of the plan assets are held by who? Baby boomers. These are the people that don't necessarily need the help in saving or saving more or saving the right way.

Shane Dawe: What they need is, to help figure out how to protect what they've worked so hard to save, maybe the most money they've ever accumulated in their life. They need to figure out how to then convert what they've saved into what they need, which is lifetime income. And, the good news, bad news, that we're dealing with is people are living longer.

Shane Dawe: That's good news. But the bad news about that is, we're living longer, so we're going to need money for a longer period of time. How am I going to make that happen?

Jim Breen: To understand, back to the airplane analogy, what sort of runway are you going to need to land that plane? Yeah. so once you do have your hands on the controls, what does that runway look? And it's different for everybody. Yeah.

Shane Dawe: But I think the advisor really has an opportunity here to shine. I truly believe those that are going to change this conversation and focus on what the ultimate outcome really is, which is income, I think they're going to, I think you're going to see a lot of growth within those firms, within those advisors and consultants. I really do.

Jim Breen: Shane, if you could take a magic wand and wave that wand and change one thing in each of those advisors minds, what would it be?

Shane Dawe: I do believe that some advisors see this as competition, and our job is going to be to make sure they understand it is not that as in, as a trusted advisor to a retirement plan, your number one priority, is to make sure that you get everyone over the finish line, not one or two people. And some people, some participants have access to an advisor and that's great. Some of their balances are attractive enough where yes, they want to be, they want to work with them, but we need to start thinking about this in terms of a race, let's get everybody over the finish line, not one or two.

Shane Dawe: So that wand, I would, definitely wave that over, some of the advisors and get them more comfortable with this is just another option and participants like options, this is not meant to compete, but rather to enhance your business and really, again, get you to finish what you ultimately started.

Shane Dawe: And the last point I'd make on that is I think about it this way. If I'm an advisor, I have six key things that I'm trying to solve for within each of my plans that I am responsible for all my participants. And I alluded to a little bit of this earlier, but those six key things are one, You got to get participants to join.

Shane Dawe: That's first and foremost. Two, you got to get them to contribute. There's not an issue in this industry of over contributing, it's the opposite. Number three, make sure they're invested the right way. So as an advisor, you've done a great job as an industry, I think we've done a really good job. We've moved the needle, but how did we actually move the needle?

Shane Dawe: Was it education? A little bit. It was autos. Couldn't get people to join? Auto enrollment. Couldn't get people to save enough? Auto escalation. Couldn't get people to save the right way? We would QDIA, Qualified Default Investment Alternatives. They would be defaulted into the appropriate fund. Then we stopped.

Shane Dawe: But the risks are not done. The next one is, now that I have this money, we have to protect it. So it's that market risk protection. It's the conversion risk. How do I actually convert what I've worked so hard to save into what I need? As I mentioned before. A lot of advisors, even plan sponsors, if you ask them the question, what distribution options do your participants have when they get ready to retire?

Shane Dawe: They don't know. So it's an opportunity to really start to look into, deeper, at even just plan design before we talk about product. Is the plan set up to truly be a retirement plan, or are you just a savings plan right now?

Jim Breen: Shane, this has been extremely helpful and I'm so glad we had an opportunity to sit and have you on the show, learn more about you, get to know you better and, excited to have you back, frankly.

Shane Dawe: Thank you very much. This has been awesome and looking forward to many more in the future.

Jim Breen: Absolutely. And to our audience, I want to encourage you to follow the show and head over to YouTube, Spotify, and Audible search The Wave Strength and hit and subscribe so that you can stay current with new shows as they become available.

Jim Breen: Once again, thanks so much for joining us and you have a great day.

VO: This has been another episode of The Wave Strength presented by Pacific Life. Don't forget to catch us on YouTube and make sure to subscribe. Although this podcast is presented by Pacific Life, the opinions and views expressed are those of the hosts and participants, and do not necessarily reflect Pacific Life's views on any of the topics discussed.

VO: Unless otherwise noted, Pacific Life is unaffiliated with any other individual or company mentioned. Pacific Life is a product provider. It is not a fiduciary and therefore does not give advice or make recommendations regarding insurance or investment products. Pacific Life, its affiliates, its distributors, and respective representatives do not provide any employer sponsored qualified plan administrative services or impartial advice about investments and do not act in a fiduciary capacity for any plan.

VO: Pacific Life refers to Pacific Life Insurance Company and its subsidiary Pacific Life Annuity Company. Insurance products can be issued in all states except New York by Pacific Life Insurance Company and in all states by Pacific Life Annuity Company. Product availability and features may vary by state.

VO: Each insurance company is solely responsible for the financial obligations accruing under the products at issues. This podcast was recorded on September 29th, 2024.

Jim Breen: Thanks for joining us on today's show. We'd love to hear from you join the conversation below and leave a comment on your thoughts on what the industry can do better for participants as it pertains to lifetime income solutions. And if you'd like more interesting content, click one of these links over here.